From: Alexander Peshkov (peshkov@renderx.com)
Date: Wed May 05 2004 - 06:05:50 PDT
Hello William,
First of all I would like to note that XSL-FO specification is not very
explicit when describing scope of orphans/widows. It refers to
"number of line-areas in the first/last area generated by the formatting object"
but it is not clear that is the first area in this context.
We believe that first area produced by formatting object do not
include line areas produced by its descendants, that's why in your
first example below XEP can break page after section title.
In the situations like yours it is natural to use keep-with-next.within-page="always"
on the section title block instead of 'orphans'.
The same is for the second example - you expect that all line areas
generated by descendants of the topmost block will be taken into
account then its 'widows' property interpreted. Note however that
orphans/widows properties are inheritable and if your interpretation
will be used you won't have any breaks unless one of the nested blocks
is 7 lines long (orphans="2" (default) and widows="5").
Again, there is a simpler way to achieve desired effect - just set
keep-together.within-page="always" keep-with-pevious.within-page="always"
on the signature table instead of using 'widows'.
I believe both examples mentioned in your letter are typical usecases
for keep properties rather then for orphans/widows.
Best regards,
Alexander Peshkov mailto:peshkov@renderx.com
RenderX
SW> Note: most attributes have been removed to reduce the size of the post and
SW> to make it easier to read.
SW> The first example that I have been unable to get working is very simple, in
SW> fact if I'm not mistaken, default behavior should cover it;
SW> <fo:block orphans="2">
SW> <fo:block>
SW> <fo:inline color="blue">Section Title</fo:inline>
SW> </fo:block>
SW> <fo:block>Yiss blab blow, etc, and so on...</fo:block>
SW> </fo:block>
SW> The section title appears on the last line of a page and the body of the
SW> section appears on the next page.
SW> In the next example we have a signature line in a table and we don't want
SW> the signature line to be widowed, we want it to show up with at least some
SW> content from the report else the signature has no context and could be
SW> attached to any report. (I had read somewhere out in netland that
SW> widows/orphans should apply equally to all block level constructs including
SW> tables but the W3 spec did not seem to be that specific. You'll have to
SW> inform me of your product's implementation.)
SW> <fo:block widows="5">
SW> <fo:block>
SW> <fo:block>
SW> <fo:inline color="blue">Comment</fo:inline>
SW> </fo:block>
SW> <fo:block>My final impression is...</fo:block>
SW> <fo:block>Daffy once said --"I looked....</fo:block>
SW> <fo:block>I must say that I've...</fo:block>
SW> </fo:block>
SW> <fo:block>
SW> <fo:block space-before="15pt"/>
SW> <fo:block>Mickey Mouse, MD, was personally present...</fo:block>
SW> <fo:block>
SW> <fo:table>
SW> <fo:table-column/>
SW> <fo:table-column/>
SW> <fo:table-body>
SW> <fo:table-row height="22pt">
SW> <fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:block/>
SW> </fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:block/>
SW> </fo:table-cell>
SW> </fo:table-row>
SW> <fo:table-row>
SW> <fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:block>________________________</fo:block>
SW> </fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:block>________________________</fo:block>
SW> </fo:table-cell>
SW> </fo:table-row>
SW> <fo:table-row>
SW> <fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:block>Mickey Mouse, MD</fo:block>
SW> </fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:table-cell>
SW> <fo:block>Donald Duck, MD</fo:block>
SW> </fo:table-cell>
SW> </fo:table-row>
SW> </fo:table-body>
SW> </fo:table>
SW> </fo:block>
SW> </fo:block>
SW> </fo:block>
SW> In this case the line "Mickey Mouse was..." is the last line on a page and
SW> the signature lines appear on the next page.
SW> We have a workaround wherein 1) report sections are tables, 2) rows are kept
SW> together, and 3) signature lines are appended to the table of the last
SW> section processed. This approach works but has limitations due to the fact
SW> that report sections cannot break over a page. This leads to situations
SW> some percentage of a page is used up and the next section is too large for
SW> the remaining space thus breaking to the next page. We would much prefer
SW> the simplicity and flexibility of widow/orphan control.
SW> Bill Schroeder
>> ----------
>> From: Alexander Peshkov[SMTP:peshkov@renderx.com]
>> Reply To: xep-support@renderx.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 4:41 AM
>> To: Schroeder, William
>> Subject: Re[2]: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows
>>
>> Hello William,
>>
>> Orphans and widows properties are aimed to control separation of text
>> lines of the paragraph (fo:block) on the pagebreak. Those properties
>> do not control behavior of block sequences or table rows. It's still
>> not clear to me what are you doing. If you post code snippet (or short
>> example) of your document we will try to figure out the best way to
>> achieve desired effect.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Alexander Peshkov mailto:peshkov@renderx.com
>> RenderX
>>
>>
>> SW> Actually, we already have some code in place that appends signature
>> lines to
>> SW> the previous section and uses keep-with-next to enforce some of our
>> SW> requirements. The code is cumbersome and has limitations that can lead
>> to
>> SW> significant blank spaces at the bottom of pages. Using widows and
>> orphans
>> SW> would greatly simplify the situation, eliminate the limitations, and
>> reduce
>> SW> the size of the fo file.
>>
>> SW> Right now I'm just trying to get something (anything) to move from one
>> page
>> SW> to another. Since my original post, I have not even been able to get
>> simple
>> SW> examples (similar to those given in response to Anders Svensson's post
>> on
>> SW> 10/21/2003) to work. Either I've missed something fundamental or this
>> SW> feature just dosen't work. (It seems like it ought to be just as easy
>> as
>> SW> <fo:block orphans="5">.)
>> SW> Bill Schroeder
>>
>> >> ----------
>> >> From: Rose, Richard[SMTP:Richard.Rose@capitalone.com]
>> >> Reply To: xep-support@renderx.com
>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 11:54 AM
>> >> To: 'xep-support@renderx.com'
>> >> Subject: RE: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows
>> >>
>> >> Try adding keep-with-next.within-page="always" attribute to the first 2
>> of
>> >> your fo:block's, this should keep them together.
>> >>
>> >> Richard Rose
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Schroeder, William [mailto:SCHRO006@onyx.dcri.duke.edu]
>> >> Sent: 29 April 2004 15:46
>> >> To: 'xep-support@renderx.com'
>> >> Subject: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I'm a newbie xep-support subscriber and I'm trying to get widows &
>> orphans
>> >> attributes working. I have created a report with signature lines at
>> the
>> >> end. Each signature line takes 3 rows, 1 for spacing, 1 for the line,
>> and
>> >> 1
>> >> for the name under the line. The first signature line occurs at the
>> >> bottom
>> >> of a page with the rest on the next page. The fo is essentially a block
>> >> containing a 2 column table with an empty table-header and a table-body
>> >> containing the signature lines. I reason that by setting the orphans
>> >> attribute to something greater than 3 that this should force the lone
>> >> signature line to the next page with the others. I have not been able
>> to
>> >> get the signature line to budge. I have tried numerous combinations &
>> >> permutations of orphans & widows at the level of the fo:block,
>> fo:table,
>> >> and
>> >> fo:table-body but nothing seems to work. Any ideas?
>> >>
>> >> Bill Schroeder
>> >>
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